Another house on Ocean slated for destruction?

The house next door to 185 Ocean Ave.—the brick townhouse destroyed last December—is now up for sale to developers. According to this ad in The New York Times, 189 Ocean Ave. is three stories; 2,262 sf; features "beautiful views" of Prospect Park and is yours now for a mere $2,300,000.

The house has the same zoning as 185, which means that, like its neighbor, it's probably slated for another 8-story apartment building.

This, of course, is precisely what residents of Ocean intended to stop when they applied to establish a historic district in order to protect the row of 13 townhouses on this block last fall. According to the new edition of the Lefferts Manor Echo (available at K-Dog but not yet online), that plan was endorsed by "the Lefferts Manor Association, Community Board 9, the Historic Districts Council, and ALL of our local elected officials"—yet still failed. The Echo doesn't say why, but word on the street is that the historic district was sacked by the local Planning Commission, whose members are heavily invested in construction. Perhaps someone involved in this effort could clarify.

(Thanks, Sara J.)

Comments

[Charles Star]

Obviously I'd rather have the old buildings stay, but if that's the going rate for a teardown on Ocean Avenue, I wish Dan could have gotten more last year.

[LM]

I wouldn't be surprised if the builder at 185 Ocean partnered up and bought this one to combine the lots and put up a really big box.

[Ceelledee]

Pardon me, but if Dan hadn't sold his house to a developer, there would not have been a tear down on Ocean Avenue in the first place!

[Bob M]

Unless I misunderstand this post the "local Planning Commission" is the same as CB-9 which voted unanimously to support efforts to landmark the Ocean Avenue houses and sent a letter, to that effect, to the LPC. They're not the problem here.

It seems to me that the MAIN problem is simply that efforts to establish, or extend, an historic district take a LONG time and seldom [with a few happy exceptions, such as the house recently saved on Lefferts Pl., in Clinton Hill] succeed when the wrecking ball is on the horizon.

The effort to extend the PLG historic district is not dead, but would be greatly helped if people on streets like Chester Court, Parkside Avenue, and other streets in the ORIGINAL mid-70s proposed HD join the effort and YES--we may well loose a number of historic houses before the process is finished years from now. That doesn't mean that it isn't worth the effort.

As to having the Echo available on line, the new software I'm using, which makes for much higher reproduction quality, produces PDF files much too large to put on the LMA website or the Yahoo Lefferts list[I tried on Tuesday--it doesn't work]. I'll scan the February issue and post lower resolution JPGs or PDF files on the Lefferts list ASAP--probably today.

[carrie]

For the record, I'm not going to approve any more comments about Dan Canale. In the two years that I've been in PLG, I don't know of any person who worked more consistently and doggedly on behalf of the nabe. No one should begrudge him for prioritizing the needs of his family.

Bob, if the historic district plan isn't dead, where does it stand? If everyone approved it, what's the problem? Is anyone still actively working on the issue?

[Matt Power]

I'd be curious to know the answer to Carrie's question about the status of expanding the HD as well. Chester, Hawthorne, Winthrop, Parkside and the south side of Fenimore were all included in the original HD proposal. Was Ocean or Parkside Court? I'm all for expanding the boundaries, but I think it might be a hard sell to expand, since most of the historic houses that were left out are broken up into apartments, and absentee landlords would have little incentive to relinquish future development rights. I mean, if they get $2.3 million for a teardown on Ocean everyone who owns an oversize lot with a house on it will want to sell. Many already are. By my count there are four (possibly 5) historic houses being sold as likely teardowns on my block (Hawthorne I) alone. And two others were recently torn down and are being replaced with a 20-unit condo.

Carrie, can you post the original HD proposal map, so people know what's being discussed? I've got it if you don't.

[Bob Marvin]

Carrie,

So far everyone has approved it EXCEPT the LPC, which, unfortunately, is the only thing that counts. As I said these things usually take a long time--not a great protection against imminent tear-downs. Saving 185 Ocean was a long-shot that failed. Pursuing an extension to our HD is still important.

FWIW, I don't think many people [myself included]anticipated tear-downs sn a problem until fairly recently--developers just didn't seem that interested in PLG. It never occurred to me to be a realistic problem until a year or so ago when I happened to see how much unused FAR the Ocean Avenue houses had.

IMO people who actually live on landmark worthy blocks (a category which,I guess, has to be self-defined) would be well advised to join with their neighbors on Ocean Avenue--AFAIK the only ones to have made a real effort since we got our original historic district in the '70s.

Preservationists are oftn accused of trying to save any building, as long as it's old. To be honest, that IS my natural inclination, but I'm not a fool and know that there has to be room for development as well. I think that any rational extension of the PLG HD will [and SHOULD] allow ample room for new development. I wouldn't presume to try to define what should,or should not, be saved [although I think the LPC's original mid-70s Proposed HD map could be a start] but something has to be started NOW.

BTW, as promised, the February Echo is now in the "Files" section of the Yahoo Lefferts list[as 10 separate pages]. The articles about landmarking are on pps. 1, 3, & 4. The original proposed HD map is in that issue and is also a separate file [I'm SOOOO glad I grabbed a scarce copy of the LPC's Proposed HD report back in 1976].

[Bob Marvin]

Matt,

Neither Ocean Ave. nor Parkside Court were included in the original proposal, but the PLGNA committee working on landmarking suggested their inclusion as well as many other blocks. The only addition we actually obtained was the inclusion of all of the north sides of Fenimore I & II.

I think you're right that expansion of the HD to blocks where most owners don't want landmarking would bev difficult. I THINK there are many blocks though where many owners might well want HD status [Parkside Ave & Chester Court come to mind--I hope there are others]. I'm NOT especially interested in trying to ram landmarking down anyone's throat.

As I mentioned in my previous comment [posted after your's] I put a PDF of the original proposed HD map on the files section of the Lefferts YAHOO list several days ago. I hope it gets reproduced as widely as possible.

[carrie]

There has indeed been a lack of leadership in terms of expanding historic districting in PLG; unless someone steps up to the plate (I've got more than my share of volunteer work at the moment, thank you very much) it ain't gonna happen.

Parkside I is an interesting case. Many of those houses are beautiful, but it's hard to believe that their residents give a rat's ass for the block. There are so many illegal curb cuts--concrete yards replacing front garden--that I suspect there wouldn't be a ton of support there for historic districting.

[Bob Marvin]

Carrie,

Your last comment is very much on point. While people on Ocean Avenue HAVE stepped up [and are making an admirable effort] I don't think anyone on other blocks has gone beyond a vague statement of interest. If people don't take responsibility for protecting their blocks and their homes nothing positive is likely to happen.

[Dan Freed]

Bob-What do I have to do?

[Rina Kleege]

Preservation should mean the inclusion of allowances for new development, and calls for responsible and educated judgment of what should be preserved...not anything and everything. However, when history has been erased in the name of "progress," years later people look back and say, how could anyone have allowed that to happen? We will all lose an important perspective on our past if those beautiful old houses disappear, which, by the way, is not likely to include homes for lower income people anyway.

[Bob Marvin]

Dan,

If you think people on your block would be interested in their houses being included in an extended HD, contact me off-list and I'll put you in touch with some of the people working on Ocean.

[Craig]

2.3 mln for house which will be landmarked propably is a good wish

good luck the owner of 189